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07/08/2010 12:09:26

lionelb8
lionelb8
Posts: 7 		I've only just spent a few hours with this and can see that the product has good potential. The following enhancements would eb help:

1. Moving objects and angles with the three mouse click combination is a strain. Perhaps some experimention with other mechanisms could be investigated. Perhaps also an option to increase the movement sweep would help, so that there are less mouse movement with more distance covered - whe using left/right pan or in/out (zoom).

2. The green timeline is too narrow (in director & timeline editing). Since this is the main point of interaction with scolling the timeline it should be wider so it's more easily selected

3. There should be two types of slow motion:
3.1 In director mode there should be a slow motion recorder. This will allow more precision when adding sound effects and co-ordinating interaction
This feature could be implemented with a slider for 1x (normal) 2x 4x 6x slower. This will make action scenes much more realistic
3.4 A special slow/fast-motion option should be added to Prepare which is used in combination with any existing action, whereby the movement of the action is slowed/speeded up.

4. The timeline items should be adjusted with little arrows at the end of each block, instead of having to edit it in a dialog.

5. Need an indicator in the audio director which indicates where there is sound on that timeline. When I scoll through the timeline I don't just want to see green, but a block like on the timeline menu (where all the timelines are shown together)

6. In the timeline editor (the main one, where all items are shown together) it might be helpful to be able to put one specific timeline from a different charater in view at the same time as the main charater being edited. This might help with syncing interaction

6.1 If two or more characters timelines are visible, for specific action, e.g. audio, allow me to select a particular block (from each characters timeline) and then have the last one selected be the master timeline, when click sync. Provide a dialog with options to (a) sync start -align to left (b) sync end - align to right (c) - same length. Options A & B are radio and C is checkbox, so C can be combined with A/B.

7. Moving the sequence of actions/audio around in terms of position on the timeline would be helpful.

8. Screen real-estate could freed up if the forms had an option to transparent or provided a minimal look, e.g. just icons with limited text.

9. Character clothes range would be great

10. Since this product is for kids, perhaps the swearing in the tutorial 12 could be beeped out - tx. A post production edit.


11. The REC indicator flipping between camera is ok, but it would be helpful to have a master camera to see the scene on the timeline.



I would like to see more control at the director phase, there is a bit too much editing required at the main timeline. Prefer to get as much done in the first pass as possible.

I think the dev team have done a fine job so far and expect that great things will come of this endeavor. Other animation tools I've briefly played with were just too much work to be fun.
edited by lionelb8 on 8/7/2010
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07/08/2010 15:54:32

glasgowjim
glasgowjim
Posts: 698 		Hi lionelb8,

I can't answer all of your suggestions as I am not in the office today (so I can't poke the artists and programmers in the head until the answer your questions), but I will answer what I can;

1. Moving objects and angles with the three mouse click combination is a strain. Perhaps some experimention with other mechanisms could be investigated. Perhaps also an option to increase the movement sweep would help, so that there are less mouse movement with more distance covered - whe using left/right pan or in/out (zoom).

We are looking at alternative movement controls at the moment, but it is at an early stage.

2. The green timeline is too narrow (in director & timeline editing). Since this is the main point of interaction with scolling the timeline it should be wider so it's more easily selected

I will pass this suggestion on

3. There should be two types of slow motion:
3.1 In director mode there should be a slow motion recorder. This will allow more precision when adding sound effects and co-ordinating interaction
This feature could be implemented with a slider for 1x (normal) 2x 4x 6x slower. This will make action scenes much more realistic
3.4 A special slow/fast-motion option should be added to Prepare which is used in combination with any existing action, whereby the movement of the action is slowed/speeded up.

I will pass this suggestion on

4. The timeline items should be adjusted with little arrows at the end of each block, instead of having to edit it in a dialog.

You can drag timeline objects into free space to change the start time - some things (like animations) cannot have their duration changed, but the things that can (like camera cuts) already have the arrows at the start and end.

5. Need an indicator in the audio director which indicates where there is sound on that timeline. When I scoll through the timeline I don't just want to see green, but a block like on the timeline menu (where all the timelines are shown together)

This has been suggested in the past - it's something that we want to do but the devs aren't working on it at the moment.

6. In the timeline editor (the main one, where all items are shown together) it might be helpful to be able to put one specific timeline from a different charater in view at the same time as the main charater being edited. This might help with syncing interaction

6.1 If two or more characters timelines are visible, for specific action, e.g. audio, allow me to select a particular block (from each characters timeline) and then have the last one selected be the master timeline, when click sync. Provide a dialog with options to (a) sync start -align to left (b) sync end - align to right (c) - same length. Options A & B are radio and C is checkbox, so C can be combined with A/B.

Might as well answer these together - the devs have looked at having more than 1 timeline on screen at once and it destroyed performance. It is something that may come in the future, but it will require a complete rework of the User Interface.

7. Moving the sequence of actions/audio around in terms of position on the timeline would be helpful.

Are you meaning swappping their positions around like Animation 1.....Animation 2.......Animation 3 changes to Animation 2.....Animation 3.....Animation 1? If so that sounds like a good idea, I will pass this suggestion on

8. Screen real-estate could freed up if the forms had an option to transparent or provided a minimal look, e.g. just icons with limited text.

I will pass this suggestion on

9. Character clothes range would be great

This is being worked on at the moment - any new clothing needs to be compatible with the existing animations so it needs a lot of testing.

10. Since this product is for kids, perhaps the swearing in the tutorial 12 could be beeped out - tx. A post production edit.

Are you referring to the use of the words "Christ" and "God" in the dialogue? I will pass on the suggestion when I get back to the office.

11. The REC indicator flipping between camera is ok, but it would be helpful to have a master camera to see the scene on the timeline.

I think this has been suggested before, it is something that is being considered but isn't being worked on at the moment.

Feel free to give any more suggestions or feedback - it's all appreciated.
Thanks,
-Jim
edited by glasgowjim on 8/9/2010
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08/08/2010 06:34:34

lionelb8
lionelb8
Posts: 7 		from previous post...

Point 6.1 If only one of the character timelines was displayed, e.g. animations and this was displayed for all or multiple characters will this destroy performance? It would be helpful to have a form with radio options to select the one timeline we are interested in, then select the characters. Then be able to perform functions on that as per point 6 & 6.1.



Some more:
12. There seems to be some issues with getting characters to sit on stuff, e.g. bar stool, any stool, chair. I got it to work once, but they mostly just float above it

13. The animation design principle seems to be that it should follow an actual directors instructions. However, the issue I have is that this process is all real-time. There is no way to plan this for 100% accuracy first time every time. The way the product needs to work is that directory I create the path for the actor (as you now do in realtime) but as a prepared path (numpad position: moods and actions.) The reason this is a requirement is that it's simple to chaotic to make the actor walk to an object and interact with it in real time. I want to be able have a character stage right, facing right turn around walk over to a chair stage left, turn around and sit down - good luck with getting that happening now in real time first time. This can be solved by providing a planning phase - just like a director would do. I want to plan the path (top view of actor) drag and drop the trail, add actions which happen at any point along the path and then invoke that action sequence from a numpad option, like a mood/action.


14. Would be very helpful to have the following dialogue option. I want to see the wave form (like in audacity) so I know what coming to get ready to trigger actor talk/shush. This is important because this gives us a visual clue, not just a timeline clue.


14.1 Ideally how this feature should be implemented is that I see the audio as a wave and can play that back as segments which I preassign to the character. e.g. I select a segment of the mp3 (can play it also so I get that exact segment correctly identified), then assign that to Anne. I go though the entire audio identifying each (multiples) segment which belong Anne. Do the same for next actor. Now I don't need to que the actor in realtime to talk/shush because you know when that actor needs to perform the action. Allow me to assign a label to each segment (which could be the actual text the actor is going to speak from the script/song)


14.1.1 Because these segments are now assigned to each actor, which identifies where in the mp3 each starts and ends, now provide a scheduler that let's me re-arrange the order. The information would be represented in a horizontal bar graph indicating the length and text inside the graph. Initially the sequence will be as it is on the mp3 (in time) e.g. X=time-slice (2 secs for example)

Anne 00m05s00ms XXXXX Hi my name is Anne and I'm a muvizu character // text could be inside the graph to save space (would need a cut off length)
<Silence> 00m15s00ms ...
Jane 00m16s00ms XXX Hello, nice to meet you.
Bob & Anne 00m22s00ms X Ditto
Anne 00m24s00ms X Snap!

etc.

Now I should be able to re-order those sound clips because you simply read it from the offset in the mp3 file as required. I get to do real directing because I don't need to capture the sequence of the audio in the exact order I'll need it. This provides the opportunity to change the story-line as required. Each segment is labled and on the timeline, I want to view that data on a timeline (as re-ordered, if reordered) or as a sequence like in a script, above.
I appreciate this seems to move away from the design principles of the software, but it's more flexible and accurate which makes it more useful and will get us consistently good results in a shorter time.


15. I don't seem to be able to animate objects. Objects themselves seem to observe some basic rules, like a ball falling will land on another ball and roll off, which is what I'd like to be able to capture as movement in the animation. So objects need a starting position which can be locked until specific point in time on the timeline. e.g. if I want a bird to drop from the sky I currently need to do this by showing only end result, <bird on ground>, not the action of bird hits the deck.


16. Objects required: Animated would be nice. Fire: wood, fire (flames), embers ; water: spring, river, pond, pool ; animals: dog, sheep, donkey/horse, pig, birds (domestic & wild), wild animals like lion, elephant, antelope, graffe, buffalo, leopard ; shark/fin ; penguin , starfish , coral , fishes , whale (head, whole thing, tale) ; rugs, blanket ; rucksack ; compass ; ropes ; knotted ropes ; bedrole/sleeping bag ; tent


17. Postures required: Sleep ( with zzZZZ) option, lay down ; sit on ground: legs crossed & one leg up (like against rock/tree) ; pick up / put down something ; hold a thing (initial position) and then put it down, hold nothing (initial position) and then pick a thing up down - since you can't interact with object simply provide a few "things"; like a log, gun, paper, bottle, stone, mug ; Drinking: from bottle, mug

Thanks.
edited by lionelb8 on 8/9/2010
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09/08/2010 13:00:10

lionelb8
lionelb8
Posts: 7 		And some more please:

18. When copying a character the timeline is not copied over. There should be an option to do this and be able to specify which bits I want, e.g. animations, eyes, dialog. This would make is really easy to create scenes where multiple characters perform similar tasks and then simply customise the exceptions. e.g soldiers, chorus line dancers, singers.

Timelines could be copied as the character starting position walking action offsets are calculated from that initial position, so characters will not end up talking over each other.
edited by lionelb8 on 8/9/2010
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09/08/2010 14:11:53

lionelb8
lionelb8
Posts: 7 		19. Dialogue recordings. It would be helpful to be able to record the audio after animation and not before. But this would probably mean that we need the ability to listen to the track and see the animation at the point where we want to continue recording dialogue audio.



20. Audio wave representation. It's pretty much a requirement that we see a wave form on the dialogue and timeline for helping to co-ordinate, initiate actions and adjust actions. It's just too time consuming right now, we have no way of knowing when audio will start. Need to listen, try to note the time on the timeline, then move action.




21. Recording audio dialogue AFTER animation with future view. It would be helpful to have a camera view which shows what's coming, a view of the animation that is in the future by x number of seconds. So the screen is what's happening now, but the master camera shows what's going to happen x seconds from now. That along with a wave form should provide visual clues to help sync audio with video.




With some of the more complex animations I've seen I can only assume the audio was added by animating, playing that back, recording outside of muvizu and then importing into the audio dialogue - if this is what it takes, then adding the correct tools in muvizu is what we need. This is how I'm looking to use it.
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09/08/2010 17:00:11

glasgowjim
glasgowjim
Posts: 698 		Hi again lionelb8,

I will answer the new suggestions first then go back to the first post and edit it - I cannot offer any timeline for what is being worked on.

Point 6.1 If only one of the character timelines was displayed, e.g. animations and this was displayed for all or multiple characters will this destroy performance? It would be helpful to have a form with radio options to select the one timeline we are interested in, then select the characters. Then be able to perform functions on that as per point 6 & 6.1.

As soon as more than one character's information was displayed there was a severe performance drop - but I will pass on the suggestion to the UI guys.


Some more:
12. There seems to be some issues with getting characters to sit on stuff, e.g. bar stool, any stool, chair. I got it to work once, but they mostly just float above it

If you sit your character towards the front of the chair you tend to get better results. Alternatively turn off "Can be stood on" with the chair - the character will then ignore it's collision and sit down.


13. The animation design principle seems to be that it should follow an actual directors instructions. However, the issue I have is that this process is all real-time. There is no way to plan this for 100% accuracy first time every time. The way the product needs to work is that directory I create the path for the actor (as you now do in realtime) but as a prepared path (numpad position: moods and actions.) The reason this is a requirement is that it's simple to chaotic to make the actor walk to an object and interact with it in real time. I want to be able have a character stage right, facing right turn around walk over to a chair stage left, turn around and sit down - good luck with getting that happening now in real time first time. This can be solved by providing a planning phase - just like a director would do. I want to plan the path (top view of actor) drag and drop the trail, add actions which happen at any point along the path and then invoke that action sequence from a numpad option, like a mood/action.

I will pass this suggestion on

14. Would be very helpful to have the following dialogue option. I want to see the wave form (like in audacity) so I know what coming to get ready to trigger actor talk/shush. This is important because this gives us a visual clue, not just a timeline clue.


14.1 Ideally how this feature should be implemented is that I see the audio as a wave and can play that back as segments which I preassign to the character. e.g. I select a segment of the mp3 (can play it also so I get that exact segment correctly identified), then assign that to Anne. I go though the entire audio identifying each (multiples) segment which belong Anne. Do the same for next actor. Now I don't need to que the actor in realtime to talk/shush because you know when that actor needs to perform the action. Allow me to assign a label to each segment (which could be the actual text the actor is going to speak from the script/song)


14.1.1 Because these segments are now assigned to each actor, which identifies where in the mp3 each starts and ends, now provide a scheduler that let's me re-arrange the order. The information would be represented in a horizontal bar graph indicating the length and text inside the graph. Initially the sequence will be as it is on the mp3 (in time) e.g. X=time-slice (2 secs for example)

Anne 00m05s00ms XXXXX Hi my name is Anne and I'm a muvizu character // text could be inside the graph to save space (would need a cut off length)
<Silence> 00m15s00ms ...
Jane 00m16s00ms XXX Hello, nice to meet you.
Bob & Anne 00m22s00ms X Ditto
Anne 00m24s00ms X Snap!

etc.

Now I should be able to re-order those sound clips because you simply read it from the offset in the mp3 file as required. I get to do real directing because I don't need to capture the sequence of the audio in the exact order I'll need it. This provides the opportunity to change the story-line as required. Each segment is labled and on the timeline, I want to view that data on a timeline (as re-ordered, if reordered) or as a sequence like in a script, above.
I appreciate this seems to move away from the design principles of the software, but it's more flexible and accurate which makes it more useful and will get us consistently good results in a shorter time.

Changes to the way audio tracks are represented are being looked at just now, I will pass on your suggestions.

15. I don't seem to be able to animate objects. Objects themselves seem to observe some basic rules, like a ball falling will land on another ball and roll off, which is what I'd like to be able to capture as movement in the animation. So objects need a starting position which can be locked until specific point in time on the timeline. e.g. if I want a bird to drop from the sky I currently need to do this by showing only end result, <bird on ground>, not the action of bird hits the deck.

Animatable Objects and Animatable Properties are being worked on at the moment.

16. Objects required: Animated would be nice. Fire: wood, fire (flames), embers ; water: spring, river, pond, pool ; animals: dog, sheep, donkey/horse, pig, birds (domestic & wild), wild animals like lion, elephant, antelope, graffe, buffalo, leopard ; shark/fin ; penguin , starfish , coral , fishes , whale (head, whole thing, tale) ; rugs, blanket ; rucksack ; compass ; ropes ; knotted ropes ; bedrole/sleeping bag ; tent

The art team are adding new objects with each release, and the ability to animate new objects is being worked on. The ability to import your own objects is also being worked on the code team, with .ace files being the first to be added.

17. Postures required: Sleep ( with zzZZZ) option, lay down ; sit on ground: legs crossed & one leg up (like against rock/tree) ; pick up / put down something ; hold a thing (initial position) and then put it down, hold nothing (initial position) and then pick a thing up down - since you can't interact with object simply provide a few "things"; like a log, gun, paper, bottle, stone, mug ; Drinking: from bottle, mug

The art team have been looking at the lying down initial state and the ability to hold items, but these will probably be in the distant future.

18. When copying a character the timeline is not copied over. There should be an option to do this and be able to specify which bits I want, e.g. animations, eyes, dialog. This would make is really easy to create scenes where multiple characters perform similar tasks and then simply customise the exceptions. e.g soldiers, chorus line dancers, singers.

Timelines could be copied as the character starting position walking action offsets are calculated from that initial position, so characters will not end up talking over each other.

This has been discussed in the past, and I agree that it would be handy for dancers etc. It isn't being worked on at the moment but it may be added at a later date.

19. Dialogue recordings. It would be helpful to be able to record the audio after animation and not before. But this would probably mean that we need the ability to listen to the track and see the animation at the point where we want to continue recording dialogue audio.

The ability to record dialogue while the animation is running is pretty interesting - I will pass it on

20. Audio wave representation. It's pretty much a requirement that we see a wave form on the dialogue and timeline for helping to co-ordinate, initiate actions and adjust actions. It's just too time consuming right now, we have no way of knowing when audio will start. Need to listen, try to note the time on the timeline, then move action.

This is being looked at and may be added at a later date.

21. Recording audio dialogue AFTER animation with future view. It would be helpful to have a camera view which shows what's coming, a view of the animation that is in the future by x number of seconds. So the screen is what's happening now, but the master camera shows what's going to happen x seconds from now. That along with a wave form should provide visual clues to help sync audio with video.

I have passed this suggestion on, but displaying two different occurrences of the same animation at different stages on the timeline would be very resource intensive.

Take Care,
-Jim
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10/08/2010 23:11:34

lionelb8
lionelb8
Posts: 7 		Here are some more requirements to think about:

22. In the absence of an audio wave form, it would be helpful to be able to add markers to the green tape measure thingo. For some this feature would probably more useful as a step prior to adding dialogue, but I want it on the timeline. This could be implemented in two ways:

22.1 I play the timeline itself. When I hear the audio cue of interest, use the spacebar to add a marker to the green timeline measurement thingo. Support multiple markers. Allow me to move (adjust) the marker. This feature is required because I can't get easily remember exactly where the sound/voice comes it.

22.2 Provide this feature in the dialogue menu option as well, so that we don't just have talk/shush as an option, but when we listen to the audio we can add markers, that way we will talk shush in the correct spot.

22.3 It may be necessary to add a little lock icon next to the green tapemeasure thing to prevent moving audio markers by accident.

23. Hiding timeline options. Please implement two icons (next to form close X), on the timeline form. A spanner for configuring and a open/closed eye for show/hide, for example. On the configure form list all the timeline items with a checkbox next to each. The checked items will be hidden when using the show/hide icon. This needs to be easy access, not through "prefs". This will free up a lot of screen space and also provide space for an audio wave to be displayed.

24. Timeline dial line extending through all timeline items. Would make it easier to line up stuff from green tape and between other timeline items.

Thanks for the feedback so far.
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13/08/2010 09:58:18

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		lionelb8 wrote:
22. In the absence of an audio wave form, it would be helpful to be able to add markers to the green tape measure thingo. For some this feature would probably more useful as a step prior to adding dialogue, but I want it on the timeline. This could be implemented in two ways:



Hi lionelb8,


You'll be pleased to hear that we're currently testing a system of 'cue points' on the timeline for the next release that should help you line up blocks on the timeline.
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