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Home ? How Do I ...? ? Best settings for DVD/Cinematic quality?

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25/02/2016 21:55:28

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		Previously, I had been rendering my final video using Windows Movie Maker in HD quality in 1920 x 1080 pixels & a bit rate of 24.19 Mbps.
Now I'm using Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 13. Terms like PAL (for the UK?) & NTSC (NA?), 25fps or 50fps (frames per sec - got it - but the final video seems sharper @ 50 fps?) - it's all tech terms right now that I'm slowly educating myself on....

My goal is to burn my final video to DVD and get as high quality / cinematic look as possible to be played on laptops, large (HD) screens / home theaters.
Looking at all the different options the Sony Vegas offers in rendering - right now I've chosen "4K 2160-50p (3840x2160, 50.000 fps)" because the looks the best...but I'm guessing this might be overkill?

Also - what is the original fps that Muvizu records in regardless of how the output is rendered (avi/tga)?
with appreciation,
.cn
edited by CloudNinja on 25/02/2016
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25/02/2016 22:01:54

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		I think PAL is the entire video format in terms of both colour and framerate; but Muvizu uses the PAL 25fps for all outputs as far as I know. 4k 50fps will be the best, especially since the fps is scaled correctly, and should work with the newly released 4k output option from Muvizu. However, DVD is an old and arguably obsolete format that doesn't even support 1080p. You'll probably want to keep the film on a flash drive than burn it to a disc since that process will lose a massive amount of quality. If you're really interested in getting it on a disc, you might want to look into blu-ray burners, but these are quite expensive.

Edit: as an extension of the first bit: The US uses 30 and 60fps but since Muvizu was made in the UK, it uses the UK 25fps.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 25/02/2016
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25/02/2016 22:25:25

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		MrDrWho13 - thank you for the quick reply & education - HUGELY helpful!
.cn
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26/02/2016 12:54:05

mrmuviz
mrmuviz
Posts: 51 		A basic DVD is 720X480....MPG2
You'd be wasting time rendering to 4K and then down to SD.
Use a bit rate around 6,000,00mbs in Vegas for your MPG2 file for DVD.
Don't MAX out the bit rate from Vegas, you'll be asking for problems with
playback of your DVD.

Hesh
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08/03/2016 19:34:52

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		Hesh - what types of DVD playback problems would there be?
thank you,
.cn
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08/03/2016 21:53:48

ritsmer
ritsmer
Posts: 110 		Like the DVD can be played on some DVD-players - and not - or not perfectly (lagging, frequent pixelation, hangs etc) - on others.

For your mentioned use (playing on laptops, large screens etc) a DVD burned on an amateur burner and burned in real basic DVD format will hardly give an acceptable result.

It is much better to use the DVD as a data disc and burn the finished video to it in mpeg2 and mp4 format and 1080p at as high a bit rate as your equipment will play. Do some tests to find out how it works.

BUT: As most laptops, newer TV-screens etc can play directly from USB-sticks - however - why not use USB-sticks ? then you may achieve speeds as high as 25 Mbps or higher.
Not that you (generally) will notice much quality gain above 20 Mbps using mp4.
edited by ritsmer on 08/03/2016
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09/03/2016 05:06:09

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		Ok - so I think I've almost got the workflow:
1 - output from Muvizu in tga
2 - import into Sony Vegas using 25 fps (PAL)
- 2a what should the over all project setting/template be? "Custom (1920x1080, 25.000 fps)"?
BTW - the video looks a bit pixelated using the Custom (1920x1080, 25.000 fps)" template... whereas when I use the "4K 2160-50p (3840x2160, 50.000 fps)" for the project settings - the video looks fantastic! However, since 4K will potentially cause playback problems on DVD, how do I keep as smooth look as possible but have it at the correct setting for DVD?
3 - Make Movie/export from Vegas using which option?
Option #1 = "Save to my hard drive"; then choose the Render Options & Template - which Render Option & Template do I choose?
Then I would take this file from my hard drive and use Sony DVD architect to do the actual burn (so I can add CSS encryption).
Option #2 = "Burn it to DVD or Blu-Ray Disc"; then choose DVD ( I don't want/need menus). Which "video format" do I choose under the "Render Parameters"
I'm not seeing a template with the 6,000,00mbs bit rate....
FYI - I need to produce the video on a disc so an USB stick is not an option.
Much, much appreciate the patience and guidance,
.cn
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09/03/2016 07:30:25

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		CloudNinja wrote:
- 2a what should the over all project setting/template be? "Custom (1920x1080, 25.000 fps)"?
BTW - the video looks a bit pixelated using the Custom (1920x1080, 25.000 fps)" template... whereas when I use the "4K 2160-50p (3840x2160, 50.000 fps)" for the project settings - the video looks fantastic! However, since 4K will potentially cause playback problems on DVD, how do I keep as smooth look as possible but have it at the correct setting for DVD?

If you're exporting from Muvizu in 1080p, then use the 1080p custom template. If you're using 4k/UHD output from Muvizu then use the 4k/UHD 2160p project template. I'm not sure how it would get pixelated, are you judging by an output or by the preview window in vegas?
I still think burning you video to a DVD isn't a great idea, and you might want to, as ritsmer says, format the disc as file storage and just put the mp4 file in there. This means you can connect it to whatever setup you have with a computer and play in the resolution you want.
As a comparison just to re-iterate the massive loss in quality:
DVD: 720 x 480
Full HD: 1920x1080
UHD(4K): 3840 × 2160

If you're still set on burning the disc as a DVD, don't bother exporting your video in more than 1080p since you'll be using up disc space.
I haven't really tried any dvd burning programs apart from windows dvd maker so I can't help on that last bit.

MDW13
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09/03/2016 14:29:43

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		MDW13 - thank you for the quick reply and continued insights.
Yes - I was judging by the preview window in Vegas.
I personally would love to upload & stream but the people who want my little project only have a DVD player .
ritsmer's advice will only work for running a DVD (as a data disk w/ mp4 video file) playing on a PC & NOT a DVD player - correct?
I now realize part of the reason I haven't been able to completely execute/map some of the advice given: until yesterday, I was using Muvizu (approximately) vers 6.1 (btw - I have the link to the release history but how do I tell from the MZ app which exact vers I have?)
Yesterday I installed in a new directory the latest vers (7.1). Now your references from another thread to png tga files and UHD in your last post here makes sense ;0)! I was scratching my head saying "Hang on, MZU only exports up to 1080?!"...now I see in vers 7.1 I can export to 2160).
In summary, what I've finally understood (thanks for the patience guys): if I must do a DVD then I must export from Muvizu @ 720x480 (& not 1080p or higher as I have been doing until now) because I'll possibly get playback issues from the DVD in anything higher.
BTW - all of the guidance regarding 1080p & other, non-DVD options will help in some upcoming projects. EVERYTHING shared by all of you has been of great value & will positively impact my upcoming Muvizu projects - THANK YOU!
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09/03/2016 15:04:18

ritsmer
ritsmer
Posts: 110 		It depends on the DVD player. You can only do a test or check the specs.

As to the used Muvizu release: click the ? in the upper right corner and then click about.
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09/03/2016 16:04:28

mrmuviz
mrmuviz
Posts: 51 		I would export 1080 out of Muvizu then bring it into VEGAS export out the 720X480 Widescreen
for a DVD that plays in a DVD Player.
If you want higher quality like ritsmer says then do the above, but then export
out a 1080 file from VEGAS and burn it to a DVD not as a playable DVD(AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS folders)
but as a DATA DVD, this will give you a higher quality.
The thing to do when you want to play it back without any hiccups is put that
DATA DVD(or Thumb Drive) with a 1080 MP4 file on in what ever computer and copy
that file to the harddrive and then play it back from there.
MP4 will work on a MAC or PC


I think Movie Studio has basic DVD templates so picking 6,000,000 is not an option
like VEGAS Pro.
You can get 1hr and 30mins at 6,00,000 Mbps on a Regular Playable DVD,
so pick 1.5hr template if its over 1hr 25min pick the 2hr template if thats how it works
Don't pick a 1hr template thats too high to be safe on all DVD players


Hesh
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09/03/2016 17:08:32

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		Most Resolutions Mentioned in a Thread Ever!

CloudNinja, I also have to make stuff up to put on DVD. These are my steps to getting the best quality :

1. Load it into Vegas - if Vegas doesn't like the format/codec, then I use Xilisoft Video Converter to convert it to a h.264/MP4 codec @ 1280 x 720 25fps 6000k, which Vegas does like. That particular resolution is handy to remove the aspect ratio from stretched 4:3 footage and make it 1:1 aspect ratio, which gives you less problems down the line (and still preserve as much quality as is possible from 720x576 footage, which is all that standard definition TV actually is, even in widescreen). From Muvizu I use TGA sequences, which always gives the best quality (since there is no compression) and I can always load straight into Vegas.

(Incidentally, the preview window in Vegas lies, never trust it to show you what's actually happening, only the rendered shot counts)

2. Export it from Vegas as a MainConcept MPEG2 format HDV 1280x720 6k 16:9 aspect ratio.

3. Convert (with Xili again since Vegas has strange ideas about what constitutes a DVD compliant format) to a straight MPEG2, 720x576, 3k 25fps.

4. Load that into your DVD authoring software - that format also works well with DVD Architect I seem to remember, but I've always stuck with DVD Lab cos it's better

DVD Architect should then demux the video into MPA and MPV streams, which have fixed quality values, which is why it's pointless trying to stuff HD onto a DVD. You can preserve as much as you can in the editing phase, but your final input into DVD Architect is always limited to 720x576 at 3k and 25fps as an absolute maximum. This is why no one uses DVDs anymore Big Grin
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09/03/2016 17:09:47

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		The preview window is probably giving you a downscaled version of your video. If you want to see how sharp it is really then you should export the mp4 and watch that.
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09/03/2016 21:15:22

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		PHENOMENAL! - thanks to all of you again!!
As I'm testing these steps....SUCCESS! (The true test will be when I take this test DVD and run it on one of the DVD players that froze previously - stay tuned)
Now I'm running into a different issue where when I click "Full Screen" - there are still some black bars on each side of the video?!
I have the settings using 720x576, 3k 25fps 16:9 ratios & widescreen settings.
Other DVDs I have display with "true" full screen...any suggestions?
(So close & yet so far)
with appreciation,
.cn
edited by CloudNinja on 09/03/2016
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09/03/2016 21:19:32

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		I've no idea how you would do this, but google says it's something to do with anamorphic encoding. If you can find something in the settings of the software you're using that says this you might have it solved. A temporary solution is to manually force your tv/projector to go 16:9 - it should be in the menu somewhere under image.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 09/03/2016
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10/03/2016 00:37:57

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		In DVD Architect the aspect ratio has to be set to 16:9 for the output, regardless of what the AR was when you imported it, to get it to go widescreen. Also, your source has to be widescreen too or it's squishy time.
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10/03/2016 01:09:34

mrmuviz
mrmuviz
Posts: 51 		My post I did a couple hours ago....disappeared.... weird

Hesh
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10/03/2016 03:28:17

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		ziggy72 wrote:
In DVD Architect the aspect ratio has to be set to 16:9 for the output,....

I did set the aspect ratio in DVD Architect to 16:9, that's why I was surprised I still had those black lines......
UPDATE: went through the workflow again & this time no black lines....YEHAW! Ok...the change from my last post was that I used a video converter that I already had (Nero) instead of Xilisoft and set the aspect ratio settings to "Original Aspect Ratio" AND made sure DVD Architect was set to 16:9!
What He Said Applause Toast
edited by CloudNinja on 10/03/2016
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10/03/2016 04:38:30

CloudNinja
CloudNinja
Posts: 92 		Sanity check:

Until now, I've been using PAL because that's the source for Muvizu...

In my final burn to DVD, if I'm making a DVD to be played on a DVD player made in North America (vs. the UK), don't I have to use NTSC?

with appreciation,
.cn
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10/03/2016 07:25:10

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		CloudNinja wrote:
Sanity check:

Until now, I've been using PAL because that's the source for Muvizu...

In my final burn to DVD, if I'm making a DVD to be played on a DVD player made in North America (vs. the UK), don't I have to use NTSC?

with appreciation,
.cn

While I'm not 100% sure, I think you should stick with PAL because the source (Muvizu) exports at that and if you switch to 30/60fps you might have ghosting issues.
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